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Title: Notes and Queries, Number 224, February 11, 1854 - A Medium of Inter-communication for Literary Men, Artists, - Antiquaries, Genealogists, etc
Author: Various
Language: English
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Copyright Status: Not copyrighted in the United States. If you live elsewhere check the laws of your country before downloading this ebook. See comments about copyright issues at end of book.

*** Start of this Doctrine Publishing Corporation Digital Book "Notes and Queries, Number 224, February 11, 1854 - A Medium of Inter-communication for Literary Men, Artists, - Antiquaries, Genealogists, etc" ***

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"When found, make a note of."--CAPTAIN CUTTLE.

       *       *       *       *       *

No. 224.]
[Price Fourpence. Stamped Edition 5d.

       *       *       *       *       *


  NOTES:--                                                    Page

  Eliminate, by C. Mansfield Ingleby                           119

  Cranmer's Bible                                              119

  Sovereigns Dining and Supping in Public                      120

  Parallel Ideas from Poets, by Norris Deck                    121

  The great Alphabetic Psalm, and the Songs of Degrees,
    by T. J. Buckton                                           121

  MINOR NOTES:--Inscription on a Grave-stone in Whittlebury
    Churchyard, Northamptonshire--Epitaph on Sir Henry
    St. George--Newton and Milton--Eternal Life--Inscriptions
    in Books--Churchill's Grave                                122


  Coronation Stone                                             123

  Old Mereworth Castle, Kent                                   124

  MINOR QUERIES:--"I could not love thee, dear, so much"--
    Leicester as Ranger of Snowden--Crabb of Telsford--
    Tolling the Bell while the Congregation is leaving
    Church--O'Brien of Thosmond--Order of St. David of
    Wales--Warple-way--Purlet--Liveries, Red and Scarlet--
    Dr. Bragge--Chauncy, or Chancy--Plaster Casts--
    [Greek: Sikera]--Dogs in Monumental Brasses                125

  MINOR QUERIES WITH ANSWERS:--Marquis of Granby--
    "Memorials of English Affairs," &c.--Standing when the
    Lord's Prayer is read--Hypocrisy, &c.                      127


  "Consilium Novem Delectorum Cardinalium," &c.,
    by B. B. Woodward                                          127

  John Bunyan, by George Offor                                 129

  The Asteroids, &c., by J. Wm. Harris                         129

  Caps at Cambridge, by C. H. Cooper                           130

  Russia, Turkey, and the Black Sea, by John Macray            132

  High Dutch and Low Dutch, by Professor Goedes de Grüter      132

  PHOTOGRAPHIC CORRESPONDENCE:--The Calotype on the Sea-shore  134

  REPLIES TO MINOR QUERIES:--Ned o' the Todding--Hour-Glasses
    and Inscriptions on Old Pulpits--Table-turning--"Firm was
    their faith"--The Wilbraham Cheshire MS.--Mousehunt--
    Begging the Question--Termination "-by"--German Tree--
    Celtic Etymology--Recent Curiosities of Literature--
    D. O. M.--Dr. John Taylor--Lines attributed to Hudibras
    --"Corporations have no Souls," &c.--Lord Mayor of London
    a Privy Councillor--Booty's Case--"Sat cito, si sat
    bene"--Celtic and Latin Languages--Brydone the Tourist's
    Birth-place                                                135


  Notes on Books, &c.                                          138

  Books and Odd Volumes wanted                                 138

  Notices to Correspondents                                    139

       *       *       *       *       *


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(Vol. v., p. 317.)

"N. & Q." has from time to time done much good service by holding up to
reprobation modern and growing corruptions of the English language. I trust
that its columns may be open to one more attempt to rescue from abuse the
word which stands at the head of this article.

Its signification, whether sought from Latin usage and etymology, or from
the works of English mathematicians, is "to turn out of doors," "to oust,"
or, as we say in the midland counties, "to get shut of." In French it may
be rendered as well by _se défaire_ as by _éliminer_. Within the last seven
or eight years, however, this valuable spoil of dead Latinity has been
strangely perverted, and, through the ignorance or carelessness of writers,
it has bidden fair to take to itself two significations utterly distinct
from its derivation, viz. to "elicit," and to "evaluate." The former
signification, if less vicious, is more commonly used than the latter. I
append examples of both from three of the most elegant writers of the day.
In the third extract the word under consideration is used in the latter
sense; in the other extracts it carries the former.

_Lectures on the Philosophical Tendencies of the Age_, by J. D. Morrell,
London, 1848, p. 41.:

    "Had the men of ancient times, when they peopled the universe with
    deities, a deeper perception of the religious element in the mind, than
    had Newton, when having _eliminated_ the great law of the natural
    creation, his enraptured soul burst forth into the infinite and

I take one more illustration (among many others) from pp. 145, 146. of this

    "It would not be strictly speaking correct to call them philosophical
    methods, because a philosophical method only exists when any tendency
    works itself clear, and gives rise to a formal, connected, and logical
    system of rules, by which we are to proceed in the _elimination_ of

_The Eclipse of Faith_, by Professor Rogers, London, 1852, p. 392.:

    "They are now at college, and have imbibed in different degrees that
    curious theory which professedly recognises Christianity (as consigned
    to the New Testament) as a truly _divine_ revelation, yet asserts that
    it is intermingled with a large amount of error and absurdity, and
    tells each man to _eliminate_ the divine 'element' for himself.
    According to this theory, the problem of eliciting revealed truth may
    be said to be indeterminate, the value of the unknown varies through
    all degrees of magnitude; it is equal to any thing, equal to every
    thing, equal to nothing, equal to infinity."

_Theological Essays_, by F. D. Maurice, Cambridge, 1853, p. 89.:

    "Let us look, therefore, courageously at the popular dogma, that there
    are certain great ideas floating in the vast ocean of traditions which
    the old world exhibits to us, that the gospel appropriated some of
    these, and that we are to detect them and _eliminate_ them from its own

But for the fact that such writers have given the weight of their names to
so unparalleled a blunder, it would seem almost childish to occupy the
columns of a literary periodical with exposing it. It is, however, somewhat
singular that it should be principally men of _classical_ attainments who
perpetrate it. In my under-graduate days at Cambridge, the proneness of
"classical men" to commit the blunder in question was proverbial.

In conclusion, then, let it be remembered that the word "eliminate"
obtained general currency from the circumstance of its being originally
admitted into mathematical works. In such works _elimination_ signifies the
process of causing a function to disappear from an equation, the solution
of which would be embarrassed by its presence there. In other writings the
word "elimination" has but one correct signification, viz. "the extrusion
of that which is superfluous or irrelevant." As an example of this
legitimate use of the word, I will quote from Sir William Hamilton's
accurate, witty, and learned article on "Logic," published in the
_Edinburgh Review_, April, 1833:

    "The preparatory step of the discussion was, therefore, an
    _elimination_ of these less precise and appropriate significations,
    which, as they could at best only afford a remote genus and difference,
    were wholly incompetent for the purpose of a definition."



       *       *       *       *       *


Queries which I have heard at various times lead me to think that a Note on
this interesting volume may be acceptable to many readers who possess or
have access to it; and especially to those whose copies may be (as too many
are) imperfect at the beginning and end. Under this impression I send you
an extract from the late Mr. Lea Wilson's catalogue of his unrivalled
Collection of English Bibles. As very few copies of this curious and
beautiful work were printed, and not one, I believe, has been sold, it is
probable that few of your readers are aware of the criteria which that
gentleman's ingenuity and industry have furnished for distinguishing
between the {120} various editions which are known under the title of _The
Great Bible_, or _Cranmer's Bible_. He begins his description of the
edition of April, 1539, thus:

    "As this volume is commonly called the First Edition of Cranmer's or
    the Great Bible, I class it with the Six following; although in fact
    the Archbishop had nothing whatever to do with either the translation
    or publication. It was put forth entirely by Thomas Lord Cromwell, vide
    Herbert's _Ames_, p. 1550. vol. iii., who employed Coverdale to revise
    the existing translations. The first wherein Cranmer took any part is
    the large folio of April 1540, the text of which differs from this
    edition materially. The pages of this volume and of the four next
    following begin and end alike; and the general appearance of the whole
    five is so very similar that at first sight, one may be mistaken for
    another by those ignorant of the fact that they are all separate and
    distinct impressions: the whole of the titles, of which there are five
    in each Book, and every leaf of kalendar, prologue, text, and tables
    being entirely recomposed, and varying throughout in orthography, &c.
    The desire to make perfect copies out of several imperfect, has also
    caused extreme confusion, by uniting portions of different editions
    without due regard to their identity. These remarks apply equally to
    the editions of Nov. 1540, and Nov. 1541, of which, in like manner,
    each page begins and ends with the same words. Although the distinctive
    marks are very numerous, yet being chiefly typographical ornaments or
    arrangement, it is impossible to give here sufficient guides to ensure
    the integrity of each volume."--Page 12.

On the next page but one is added:

    "The following lines of the forty-first chapter of Job differ in
    composition in all the seven volumes, and for the purpose of
    distinguishing the edition I have given them to each."

_No. 1. April, 1539._

    No m[=a] is so cruell, that is able to stere him up. *Who is able to
    stande before me? Or ++who hath geu[=e] me anything afore hande, that I
    maye rewarde him agayne? All thynges un-

_No. 2. April, 1540._

    No man is so cruell, y^t is able to stere h[=i] up. *Who is able to
    st[=a]de before me? Or ++who hath geuen me any thyng afore h[=a]de, y^e
    I maye rewarde him agayne? All thynges

_No. 3. July, 1540._

    No man is so cruell, y^t is able to stere hym up. *who is able to
    stande before me? Or ++who hath geuen me any thynge aforehande, that I
    maye rewarde him agayne?

_No. 4. May, 1541._

    No man is so cruell, that is hable to styrre hym up. *Who is hable to
    stande before me? Or ++who hath geue me any thing aforehande, that I
    maye rewarde hym agayne? All thyn-

_No. 5. December, 1541._

    No m[=a] is so cruel, that is able to styrre hym up. *Who is hable to
    stand before me? Or ++who hathe gyuen me anye thynge afore hande, that
    I maye rewarde hym agayne?

_No. 6. November, 1540._

    No man is so cruell that is able to styr hym up. *Who is able to stande
    before me? Or ++who hath geuen me any thynge afore hande, that I maye

_No. 7. November, 1541._

    No man is so cruell that is hable to styrre hym up. *Who is able to
    stande before me? Or ++who hath gyuen me any thyng afore hande, that I
    maye rewarde hym agayne? All

I believe the foregoing to be an exact copy of Mr. Wilson's catalogue, but,
of course, I cannot be responsible for the accuracy of his transcripts.
Perhaps none but those who were admitted to his library ever had an
opportunity of comparing together all those editions; and nobody would have
done it with more care and fidelity than himself.

S. R. M.

       *       *       *       *       *


In some observations which I made upon two or three pictures in Hampton
Court Palace, in Vol. viii., p. 538., I specified two worthy of notice on
the above subject, and which are the first instances of such ceremony I
have met with. It has been supposed to have been a foreign custom but I do
not find any traces of it upon record.[1] {121} One can easily imagine that
the _fastueux_ Louis XIV. would have no objection to such display, and that
his mistresses, as well as queen, would be of the party, when we read, that
in the royal progresses two of the former were scandalously paraded in the
same carriage with his queen. To this immoral exhibition, indeed, public
opinion seemed to give no check, as we read, that "les peuples accouraient
'pour voir,' disaient-ils, 'les trois reines,'" wherever they appeared
together. Of these three _queens_, the true one was Marie-Thérèse: the two
others were La Marquise de Montespan and Mme. de la Vallière. But to return
to my subject. I find by the _London Gazette_, No. 6091. of Sept. 4, 1722,
that Geo. I., in his progress to the west of England, supped in public at
the Bishop's (Dr. Richard Willis) palace at Salisbury on Wednesday, Aug.
29, 1722; and slept there that night.

The papers of the period of George II. say:

    "There was such a resort to Hampton Court on Sunday, July 14, 1728, to
    see their Majesties dine, that the rail surrounding the table broke;
    and causing some to fall, made a terrible scramble for hats, &c., at
    which their Majesties laughed heartily."


    "On Thursday, the 25th of the same month, it is stated, the concourse
    to see their Majesties dine in public at Hampton Court was exceedingly
    great. A gang of robbers (the swell-mob of that day?) had mixed
    themselves among the nobility and gentry; several gold watches being
    lost, besides the ladies' gown tails and laced lappets cut off in

And again:

    "On Sunday, 15th September, 1728, their Majesties dined together in
    public at Windsor (as they will continue to do every Sunday and
    Thursday during their stay there), when all the country people, whether
    in or out of mourning, were permitted to see them."

Besides those three occasions of George II. and Queen Caroline dining in
public, we have another recorded attended with some peculiar circumstances,
as mentioned in the _London Gazette_, No. 7623. of Tuesday, Aug. 2, 1737:

    "The 31st ult. being Sunday, their Majesties, the Prince and Princess
    of Wales, and the Princesses Amelia and Caroline, went to chapel at
    Hampton Court, and heard a sermon preached by the Rev. Dr. Blomer.
    Their Majesties, and the rest of the royal family, dined afterwards in
    public as usual before a great number of spectators. About seven
    o'clock that evening, the Princess of Wales was taken with some slight
    symptoms of approaching labour, and was removed to St. James's; where,
    a little after eleven, she was delivered of a princess."

This was the Princess Augusta, who was married to the Prince of Brunswick



[Footnote 1: [The custom was observed at a much earlier period; for we find
that King Edward II. and his queen Isabella of France kept their court at
Westminster during the Whitsuntide festival of 1317; and on one occasion,
as they were _dining in public_ in the great banqueting-hall, a woman in a
mask entered on horseback, and riding up to the royal table, delivered a
letter to King Edward, who, imagining that it contained some pleasant
conceit or elegant compliment; ordered it to be opened and read aloud for
the amusement of his courtiers; but, to his great mortification, it was a
cutting satire on his unkingly propensities, setting forth in no measured
terms all the calamities which his misgovernment had brought upon England.
The woman was immediately taken into custody, and confessed that she had
been employed by a certain knight. The knight boldly acknowledged what he
had done, and said, "That, supposing the King would read the letter in
private, he took that method of apprising him of the complaints of his
subjects."--Strickland's _Queens of England_, vol. i. p. 487.--ED.]]

       *       *       *       *       *


Longfellow and Tennyson:

 "And like a lily on a river floating,
  She floats upon the river of his thoughts."
          _Spanish Student_, Act II. Sc. 3.

 "Now folds the lily all her sweetness up,
  And slips into the bosom of the lake;
  So fold thyself, my dearest, thou, and slip
  Into my bosom and be lost in me."
                  _Princess_, Part vii.

Wordsworth and Keble:

 "A book, upon whose leaves some chosen plants
  By his own hand disposed with nicest care,
  In undecaying beauty were preserved;--
  Mute register, to him, of time and place,
  And various fluctuations in the breast;
  To her, a monument of faithful love
  Conquered, and in tranquillity retained!"
                  _Excursion_, Book vi.

 "Like flower-leaves in a precious volume stor'd,
          To solace and relieve
  Some heart too weary of the restless world."
      _Christian Year_: Prayers to be used at Sea.

Moore and Keble:

 "Now by those stars that glance
  O'er Heaven's still expanse
  Weave we our mirthful dance,
        Daughters of Zea!"
              _Evenings in Greece._

       "Beneath the moonlight sky,
        The festal warblings flow'd,
  Where maidens to the Queen of Heaven
  Wove the gay dance."
      _Christian Year_: Eighth Sunday after Trinity.



       *       *       *       *       *


In attempting to discover a reason for the division of Psalm cxix. into
twenty-two portions of _eight_ verses each, instead of _seven_ or _ten_,
the more favourite numbers of the Hebrew, I have thought that, as the whole
Psalm is chiefly laudatory of the Thorah, or Law of Moses, and was written
alphabetically for the instruction mainly of the younger people, to be by
them committed to memory, a {122} didactic reason might exist for making up
the total number of 176 verses, peculiar to this Psalm. Adverting then to
the necessity, for the purposes of Jewish worship, of ascertaining the
periods of the new moons, to adjust the year thereby, I find that a mean
lunation, as determined by the latest authorities, is very nearly 29.5306
days (29d. 12h. 44m.) and as the Jewish months were lunar, six of these
would amount to 177d. 4h. 24m., being somewhat more than _one_ over the
number of verses in this Psalm. As lunations, from observation, vary from
29d. 7h. 32m. to 29d. 18h. 50m., the above was a very close approximation
to the half-year. The other half of the year would vary a whole lunation
(_Veadar_) betwixt the ordinary and the intercalary year.[2] This was, at
least, the best possible combination of twenty-two letters for such
purpose. This Psalm might then have answered some of the purposes of an
almanac. It is a very important one in fixing the Hebrew metres, the
initial letter being the same for every eight verses in succession.

The words at the commencement of Psalms cxx. to cxxxiv., rendered "Song of
Degrees," appear to me to signify rather "song of _ascents_," in reference
to the Jewish practice of _ascending_ to the house-top to watch and pray,
as well as to sleep. If it be assumed that these fifteen Psalms were
appropriated for domestic use on the Jew retiring, by ascending the ladder
or stairs, to the upper part or top of the house (Ps. cxxxii. 3.), the
meaning of several passages will be better apprehended, I conceive, than by
supposing that they were composed solely for temple use, or, as Eichhorn
thinks, to be sung on a journey. Standing on the house-top, the praying
Jew, like David and Solomon, would have in view heaven and earth (cxxi. 2.,
cxxiii 1.), the sun and moon (cxxi. 6.), the surrounding hills (cxxi. 1.)
and mountains (cxxv. 2.), the gates and city of Jerusalem (cxxii. 2. 3.
7.), Mount Zion (cxxv. 1.), the watchmen on the walls (cxxvii. 1., cxxx.
6.), his wife and children at home (cxxviii. 3., cxxxi. 2.), the mover
bringing in his sheaves, compared with the grass on the house-tops (cxxix.
6-8.), all subjects especially noted in these fifteen Psalms. The number
_eight_ appears to be a favourite one in these, as well as in Psalm cxix.,
but there is no reason to believe that such number refers to the _octave_
in music. It may refer, however, to the number of stairs or steps of
ascent. I am not aware that the above views have been previously taken,
which is my reason for calling attention to this interesting and
well-debated subject.


[Footnote 2: Their shortest ordinary year consisted of 353, and its half of
176½ days. The Mahometan ordinary half-year consists of 177 days. The
calendar months of both Jews and Mahometans consist of 29 and 30 days.]

       *       *       *       *       *

Minor Notes.

_Inscription on a Grave-stone in Whittlebury Churchyard,

 "In Memory of John Heath, he dy'd Dec^{br} y^e 17^{th},
            1767. Aged 27 years.

  While Time doth run from Sin depart;
  Let none e'er shun Death's piercing dart;
  For read and look, and you will see
  A wondrous change was wrought on me.
  For while I lived in joy and mirth
  Grim Death came in and stop't my breath:
  For I was single in the morning light,
  By noon was marri'd, and was dead at night."


_Epitaph on Sir Henry St. George_, Garter Principal King of Englishmen
[_sic_ in MS.], from a MS. in the Office of Arms, London (see Ballard MSS.,
vol. xxix.):

 "Here lie a knight, a king, a saint,
  Who lived by tilt and tournament.
  His namesake, George, the dragon slew,
  But, give the herald king his due,
  He could disarm ten thousand men,
  And give them arms and shields again.
  But now the mighty sire is dead,
  Reposing here his hoary head;
  Let this be sacred to the mem'ry
  Of knight St. George and of King Henry"


_Newton and Milton._--Has it been observed that Sir Isaac Newton's dying
words, so often quoted,--

    "I am but as a child gathering pebbles on the seashore, while the great
    ocean of truth still lies undiscovered before me."

are merely an adaptation of a passage in _Paradise Regained_, book iv.:

    "Deep versed in books and shallow in himself, Crude or intoxicate,
    collecting toys And trifles for choice matters, worth a sponge, As
    _children gathering pebbles_ on the shore."


_Eternal Life._--In the _Mishna_ (Berachoth, ch. ix. s. 5) the doctrine of
a future eternal state is clearly set forth in a passage which is rendered
by De Sola and Raphall:

    "But since the Epicureans perversely taught, there is but one state of
    existence, it was directed that men should close their benedictions
    with the form [Blessed be the Lord God of Israel] from eternity to

A like explicit declaration of such future state occurs again in the
_Mishna_ (Sanhedrin, ch. xi. s. l.).



_Inscriptions in Books._--The following are taken _literatim_ from the
margins of an old black-letter {123} Bible. From the numerous errors we may
suppose they were copied from dictation by a person unacquainted with

 "Quanto doctiores tanto te gesas submiseias."

 "Forasmuch as y^u art y^e better learned,
  By so much y^u must carry thy self more lowly."
 "Si deus est animus nobis ut carmina dicunt,
  Sic tibi pricipus (bus?) sit pura mente colendus."

 "Seing y^t God is, as y^e poets say,
  A liveing soul, lets worship him alway."
 "Tempora (e?) felici multa (i?) numerantur amici,
  Cum fortuna perit nulus amicus erit."

 "In time of prosperity friends will be plenty,
  In time of adversity not one among twenty."

On the title-page, "John Threlkeld's Book:"

 "Hujus in dominum cupius (as?) cognescere libri,
  Supra prospiscias, nomen habebis ibi."

 "Whose booke I am if you would know,
  I will to you in letters show."

On the other side:

 "Thomas Threlkeld is my name, and for to write ... ing ashame,
  And if my pen had bene any better, I would have mended it every letter."

This last example closely resembles some others given in a late Number of
"N. & Q."

J. R. G.


_Churchill's Grave._--It is not perhaps generally known, that the author of
_The Rosciad_ was buried in the churchyard of St. Mary, Dover. On a small
moss-covered head-stone is the following inscription:

  Here lie the remains of the celebrated
              C. CHURCHILL."

     "Life to the last enjoy'd,
      Here Churchill lies.

The notice is sufficiently brief; no date, except the year, nor age being
recorded. The biographers inform us, that he died at Boulogne of a fever,
while on a visit to Wilkes.

The cemetery where his remains are deposited is in the centre almost of
Dover; and has recently been closed for the purposes of sepulture, with the
exception of family vaults. Adjoining it is a small retired burial-place,
containing at the most but two or three graves, and originally belonging to
the Tavenors. Here is the tomb of Captain Samuel Tavenor, an officer of
Cromwell, and, during his ascendancy, one of the governors of Deal Castle.
Tavenor was a man distinguished for his courage, integrity, and piety.


       *       *       *       *       *



A few years ago the following tradition was related to me by a friend, and
I should be glad if any of your correspondents can inform me whether it is
current in any part of Great Britain or Ireland, and whether there are any
grounds for it. As it is connected with one of our most interesting
national relics, the coronation stone, it may not prove beneath notice; and
I here give it in full, shielding myself with the Last Minstrel's excuse:

 "I know not how the truth may be,
  But I tell the tale as 'twas told to me."

I must allow that its extreme vagueness, if not improbability, hardly
warrants an inquiry; but having failed in obtaining any satisfactory proofs
among my own friends, as a last resource I apply myself to the columns of
your well-known and useful journal.

When Jacob awoke after his wonderful dream, as related in Genesis (chap.
xxviii.), he said, "Surely the Lord is in this place, and I knew it not;"
and he was afraid, and said, "How dreadful is this place. This is none
other but the house of God; and this is the gate of heaven." He "took the
stone that he had put for his pillow and set it up for a pillar, and poured
oil upon the top of it. And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with
me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat
and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace,
then shall the Lord be my God: and this stone, which I have set for a
pillar, shall be God's house; and of all that Thou shalt give me I will
surely give the tenth unto Thee."

That stone (so runs the legend) is supposed to have been taken away from
Bethel by the House of Joseph, when they destroyed the city and its
inhabitants (Judges i.); and a tradition, that whosoever possessed that
stone would be especially blessed, and be king or chief, was current among
the Jews; the stone itself being guarded by them with jealous care.

On the first destruction of Jerusalem, some of the royal family of Judah
are supposed to have escaped, and to have gone in search of an asylum
beyond the sea, taking this precious stone with them. Their resting-place
was Ireland, where they founded a kingdom. Many centuries afterwards, a
brother of the king descended from these exiles, named Fergus, went, with
his brother's permission, to found a kingdom in Scotland. He said, however,
he would not go without the sacred stone. This his brother refused to give
him; but Fergus stole it, and established a kingdom in Scotland. His
descendants became kings of all Scotland, and were crowned sitting on that
stone, {124} which was taken away by Edward I., and is now in Westminster

These are the outlines of this tradition. My object now is to ask whether
any of your correspondents can inform me, first, Whether the Jews had, or
have, any like superstition concerning Jacob's pillar; and whether the
royal family of Judah possessed such a stone among their treasures?
Secondly, Whether any Jews are supposed to have settled in Ireland at so
early a period; and whether (that being the case) there are now, or were
once, proofs of their having done so, either in the Irish language or in
any of the ancient laws, customs, buildings, &c. of the country? Thirdly,
Whether the Scotch believe that stone to have come from Ireland; and
whether that belief in the owner of it being king existed in Scotland? and,
lastly, Can any of your correspondents, learned in geology, inform me
whether the like kind of stone is to be met with in any part of the British
Isles? or whether, as the legend runs, a similar kind of stone is found in
the Arabian plains? The story has interested me greatly; and if I could
gain any enlightenment on the subject, I should be much obliged for it.


    [Several of our historians, as Matthew of Westminster, Hector Boethius,
    Robert of Gloucester, the poet Harding, &c., have noticed this singular
    legend; but we believe the Rabbinical writers (as suggested by our
    Indian correspondent) have never been consulted respecting it.
    Sandford, in his valuable _History of the Coronation of James II_.
    (fol., 1687, p. 39.), has given some dates and names which will
    probably assist our correspondents in elucidating the origin of this
    far-famed relic. He says, "Jacob's stone, or _The Fatal Marble Stone_,
    is an oblong square, about twenty-two inches long, thirteen inches
    broad, and eleven inches deep, of a bluish steel-like colour, mixed
    with some veins of red; whereof history relates that it is the stone
    whereon the patriarch Jacob is said to have lain his head in the plain
    of Luza. That it was brought to Brigantia in the kingdom of Gallacia in
    Spain, in which place Gathal, King of Scots, sat on it as his throne.
    Thence it was brought into Ireland by Simon Brech, first King of Scots,
    about 700 years before Christ's time, and from thence into Scotland, by
    King Fergus, about 330 years before Christ. In the year 850 it was
    placed in the abbey of Scone in the sherifdom of Perth by King Kenneth,
    who caused it to be inclosed in a wooden chair (now called St. Edward's
    Chair), and this prophetical distich engraven on it:

     'Ni fallat Fatum, Scoti hunc quocunque locatum
      Inveniunt lapidem, regnare tenentur ibidem.'

     'If Fates go right, where'er this stone is found,
      The Scots shall monarchs of that realm be crown'd.'

    Which is the more remarkable by being fulfilled in the person of James
    I. of England." Calmet, however, states that the Mahometans profess to
    have this relic in their custody. He says, The Mahometans think that
    Jacob's stone was conveyed to the Temple of Jerusalem, and is still
    preserved in the mosque there, where the Temple formerly stood. They
    call it _Al-sakra_, or the stone of unction. The Cadi Gemaleddin, son
    of Vallel, writes, that passing through Jerusalem, in his way to Egypt,
    he saw Christian priests carrying glass phials full of wine over the
    Sakra, near which the Mussulmen had built their temple, which, for this
    reason, they call the Temple of the Stone. The wine which the Christian
    priests set upon the stone was no doubt designed for the celebration of
    mass there."]

       *       *       *       *       *


Among your subscribers there are doubtless many collectors of topographical
drawings and engravings. I shall feel specially obliged if any of them
could find in their collections a view of old Mereworth Castle (as it stood
prior to the comparatively modern erection of Lord Westmoreland), and
furnish me with a long desiderated description of it. Local tradition
represents it as having been a baronial castle rising from the middle of a
small lake, like that of Leeds, though of smaller dimensions, with the
parish church attached. I should rather conjecture it to have been an
ancient moated manor-house, magnified, in the course of tradition, into a
baronial castle and lake.

Whatever the old building was, it was pulled down by John, seventh Earl of
Westmoreland, during the first half of the last century. Had it been of the
character of Leeds Castle, as the representative of a long line of baronial
ancestry, he would hardly have levelled such a structure, with all its
inspiring associations, merely for the purpose of gratifying his passion
for Palladian architecture by the erection of the present mansion.

The ancient building seems to have been the residence of the knightly
family of De Mereworth during the twelfth, thirteenth, and part of the
fourteenth centuries, and from that time, till near the end of Elizabeth's
reign, it ceased to be a _family residence_; for, after passing through
various hands (none of whom were likely to have resided there), it
descended in 1415 to Joan, wife of the Lord Burgavenny, sister and coheir
to the Earl of Arundel. The Burgavennys of that day resided always at their
castle of Birling, which circumstance would intimate that it was a grander
and more baronial residence than Mereworth Castle (for they had come into
possession of both estates very nearly at the same period); and afterwards
Mereworth by settlement passed to Sir Thomas Fane of Badsell, in marriage
with Mary, daughter and sole heiress of Henry Lord Burgavenny, and "jure
suo" Baroness Despencer, in 1574. From that time till its dismantling in
the last century, Mereworth Castle was again a family residence, the seat
of the Earls of Westmoreland; Francis, eldest son of said Sir Thomas {125}
Fane and Mary Baroness Despencer, having been advanced to that earldom. As
the seat of a noble family for more than a century and a half, it is hardly
likely that no view should have been taken of it; I have searched, however,
in vain for it in Harris, Buck, and other published collections.

It would be a matter of special interest to many besides myself, to obtain
some information respecting it.

John, seventh earl, the builder of the present Palladian mansion, died in
1762, when the earldom passed to a distant cousin, and the barony of
Despencer was called out of abeyance in favour of Sir Francis Dashwood, the
son and representative of Mary, sister and _eldest_ co-heir of John,
seventh Earl of Westmoreland, and heir to his estates. On his death _s.p._,
Sir Thomas Stapleton, sole heir to the Barony of Despencer (as lineal
descendant and heir of Catherine, the _younger_ sister and co-heir of the
said John, seventh earl), succeeded to the estate; and from him it has
lineally descended to Mary, Viscountess Falmouth, and "jure suo" Baroness
Despencer, the present representative of the family. At Mereworth Castle
itself, where the Viscount and Viscountess Falmouth reside, there is no
view of the old building; but it is very possible that some drawing or
engraving of it may exist in some of the residences of the Earls of
Westmoreland subsequent to the seventh earl, or at the seat of the
Dashwoods, or in the British Museum.

I trouble you with this Query, in the hope that, among your numerous
readers, some one may be placed in a position to give us information on the
subject. In doing so they would greatly oblige


       *       *       *       *       *

Minor Queries.

"_I could not love thee, dear, so much._"--Where are the following lines to
be found? what is the context?

 "I could not love thee, dear, so much,
  Loved I not honour more."


_Leicester as Ranger of Snowden._--In the reign of Queen Elizabeth,
Leicester was made Ranger of Snowden Forest, and using violent means to
extort unjust taxes from the people, under cover of this appointment, he
was opposed and resisted by eight Welsh gentlemen, under the leadership of
Sir Richard Bulkeley, of Baron Hill, in Anglesey. Among these was a Madryn
of Madryn, a Hugh ap Richard of Cefnllanfair, a Griffith of Cefn Amlwch,
&c. These patriotic gentlemen met with imprisonment in the Tower of London
as their only recompense; and there are extant poems by Guttyn, Peris, and
other bards, addressed to them on the subject. I should be obliged to any
of your correspondents to give me any farther information on this subject,
or reference to documents which bear upon it.


_Crabb of Telsford._--Any information respecting the settlement of the
family of Crabb, or Crabbe, at Telsford, county of Somerset, together with
the names of the present representatives of that family, would be most
thankfully received through the medium of your valuable pages, or in any
other way, by


_Tolling the Bell while the Congregation is leaving Church._--Can you
inform me why this is done at Richmond Church; and whether the custom is
adopted in any other?[3]

J. H. M.

[Footnote 3: [This custom is observed in many of the London

_O'Brien of Thosmond._--In the _Calendar of Inquisitions post mortem_,
there appears one taken on the death of Alicia, wife of Nicholas Thosmound,
in the second year of King Henry IV. The estates were in Somersetshire.
From the appearance of this name, I suspect it is not an English one; but
rather an old form of spelling the name of the province of Tothmound or
Thomond (South Munster), Ireland; and that this Nicholas was an O'Brien,
who called himself from his family's principality, for it was not uncommon
in England formerly to take names from estates. Perhaps some of your
correspondents having access to the _Inquisition_ would ascertain more on
the subject, and give it to the public. The name of Nicholas O'Brien occurs
in the Irish rolls of Chancery about that very period.

A. B.

_Order of St. David of Wales._--In the reign of Queen Elizabeth there was
an order of knighthood--the Order of St. David of Wales. When was that
Order created? Who was the first knight? Who was the last knight? What
prelate was the chaplain to the Order? Why was it dissolved? Why is it not
revived again? We have several Welsh peers, noblemen, knights; four
bishops, men of science and learning, Welshmen. I hope the good Queen
Victoria will revive this ancient order of knighthood, and the Prince of
Wales be created the first knight. The emblem of Wales is a red dragon.

Can any of your readers give an account of this ancient order? Some years
ago there were several letters in _The Times_, and other papers, respecting
it and the Welsh motto. Wales should have its knight as well as Ireland,
Scotland, and England.


_Warple-way._--The manor of Richmond, in Surrey, has been the property of
the crown for many hundred years, I may say from time {126} immemorial: and
in all the old records and plans, the green roads are called "warple-ways."
Some of the old plans are marked "w_o_rple way," some "w_a_rple way " Can
any of your readers tell me the derivation and meaning of the word, and
refer me to an authority?


_Purlet._--Nelson, and the subsequent historians of Islington, relate a
marvellous story on the authority of _Purlet de Mir. Nat._ x. c. iv.:

    "And as to the same heavings, or _tremblements de terre_, it is sayde,
    y^t in a certaine fielde neare unto y^e parish church of Islingtoun, in
    like manner, did take place a wondrous commotion in uarious partes, y^e
    earthe swellinge, and turninge uppe euery side towards y^e midst of y^e
    sayde fielde; and, by tradycion of this, it is obserued y^t one Richard
    de Clouesley lay buryed in or neare y^t place, and y^t his bodie being
    restles, on y^e score of some sinne by him peraduenture committed, did
    shewe or seeme to signifye y^t religious obseruance should there take
    place, to quiet his departed spirit; whereupon certaine exorcisers, if
    wee may so term y^m, did at dede of night, nothing lothe, using divers
    diuine exercises at torche light, set at rest y^e unrulie spirit of y^e
    shade Clouesley, and y^e earthe did returne aneare to its pristine
    shape, neuermore commotion procedeing therefrom to this day, and this I
    know of a verie certaintie."--Nelson's _Islington_, 4to. 1811, p. 305.,
    or 8vo. 1823, p. 293.

The spelling of this extract seems at least as old as the time of
Cloudesley's death (1517), although it would appear to be a translation;
and though the exorcism is apparently spoken of as having taken place long
before the time of the writer. From these and other circumstances, I am led
to suspect that Nelson was the victim of cruel hoax, particularly as I am
unable to find any such book as _Purlet de Mir. Nat._ in the British

Query, Does any such book exist; and if so, where?



_Liveries, Red and Scarlet._--In a Provincial paper, I noticed a paragraph
dating the origin of wearing red coats in fox-hunting from a mandate of
Henry II., who it appears made fox-hunting a royal sport, and gave to all
distributors of foxes the scarlet uniform of the royal household: this also
would involve another question as regards the origin of scarlet being the
colour of the royal livery. Can any of your sporting or antiquarian
correspondents give me any authority for the former, and any information
about the latter?


_Dr. Bragge._--I shall be much obliged to any of your correspondents who
will give me information respecting Dr. Bragge, who flourished about the
year 1756. Who was he? Where did he get his degree? Who were his chief
dupes? Where did he live? He appears, from various inscriptions round an
engraved portrait, to have been a great duping dealer in pictures.

E. H.

_Chauncy, or Chancy._--Any reference to works containing biographical
notices of Charles Chauncy, or Chancy, M.A., Fellow of Trinity College,
Cambridge, circa 1620, will oblige

J. Y.

_Plaster Casts._--RUBY would be thankful for a good receipt for bronzing
plaster casts.

"[Greek: Sikera]."--In the prophecy regarding the birth of John the Baptist
(Luke i. 15.) the angel says:

    [Greek: Kai oinon kai sikera ou mê piêi.]

This is in the authorised version (I quote the original 1611 edit.) rightly

    "And shal drinke neither wine nor strong drinke."

Now, in the _Golden Legend_, fol. cxl. (Wynkyn de Worde's edition, London,
1516) is this account:

    "For he shal be grete, and of grete meryte tofore our Lord: he shall
    not drinke wyne, ne _syder_, ne thynge wherof he myght be dronken."

I need hardly remind your readers that that [Greek: sikera] was often used
by the LXX translators for an intoxicating liquor, as distinguished from
wine, viz. Levit. x. 9., Numbers vi. 3., &c., and in about nine places; but
I do not remember "syder" as _the_ "thynge wherof he myghte be dronken."
Can any of your philological friends call to mind a similar version? I do
not want to be told the derivation of [Greek: sikera], for that is obvious;
nor do I lack information as to the inebriating qualities of "syder," for,
alas! an intimate acquaintance with Devonshire has often brought before my
notice persons "dronken" with that exhilarating beverage.


St. Stephen's, Westminster.

_Dogs in Monumental Brasses._--Is there any symbolical meaning conveyed in
the dogs which are so often introduced at the feet of ladies in brasses,
and dogs and lions at the feet of knights? One fact is worthy of notice,
that while the omission of the dog is frequent in the brasses of ladies
(e.g. in that of Lady Camoys, 1424, at Trotten, Sussex, and Joan, Lady
Cobham, 1320, Cobham, Kent, and several others), the lion or dog, as the
case may be, of the knight is scarcely ever left out; indeed, I have only
been able to find two or three instances. But again, in brasses later than
1460, the dogs and lions are seldom, if ever, found either in the brasses
of knights or ladies. Can you afford me any information on these points?


Tonbridge, Kent.


       *       *       *       *       *

Minor Queries with Answers.

_Marquis of Granby._--In a late number of _Chamber's Journal_ it is stated
that there are eighteen taverns in London bearing the sign of the Marquis
of Granby. How did this sign become so popular and which marquis was it
whose popularity gained him immortality; and when lived he?


    [This sign is intended as a compliment to John Manners, commonly called
    Marquis of Granby, eldest son of John, third Duke of Rutland, who
    appears to have been a good, bluff-brave soldier--active, generous,
    careful of his men, and beloved by them. Mr. Peter Cunningham
    (_Handbook_, p. 398., edit. 1850) informs us, that "Granby spent many
    an happy hour at the Hercules Pillars public-house, Piccadilly, where
    Squire Western put his horses up, when in pursuit of Tom Jones." He
    died, much regretted, on October 19, 1770, without succeeding to the

     "What conquests now will Britain boast,
        Or where display her banners?
      Alas! in GRANBY she has lost
        True courage and good MANNERS."

    His popularity is shown by the frequent occurrence of his portrait as a
    sign-board for public-houses, even of late years; a fact which at once
    testifies in favour of his personal qualities, and indicates the low
    state of our military fame during the latter half of the last century.]

_"Memorials of English Affairs," &c._--Can you inform me who was the author
of a folio volume entitled--

    "Memorials of the English Affairs; or an Historical Account of what
    passed from the beginning of the Reign of King Charles I. to King
    Charles II. his happy 'Restauration;' containing the Public
    Transactions, Civil and Military, together with the Private
    Consultations and Secrets of the Cabinet. London: printed for Nathanael
    Conder, at the Sign of the Peacock in the Poultry, near the Church,

I have never seen any other copy than the one in my possession.

L. R.

    [This work is by Sir Bulstrode Whitelocke. The edition of 1682,
    possessed by our correspondent, was published by Arthur, Earl of
    Anglesea, who took considerable liberties with the manuscript. The best
    edition, containing the passages cancelled by the Earl, is that of
    1732, fol. "This work," says Bishop Warburton, "that has been so much
    cried up, is a meagre diary, wrote by a poor-spirited, self-interested,
    and self-conceited lawyer of eminence, but full of facts." At p. 378.
    (edit. 1682) occurs the following entry:--"From the council of state,
    Cromwell and his son Ireton went home with Whitelocke to supper, where
    they were very cheerful, and seemed extremely well-pleased; they
    discoursed together till twelve o'clock at night, and told many
    wonderful observations of God's providence in the affairs of the war,
    and in the business of the army's coming to London, and seizing the
    members of the house, in all which were miraculous passages." To this
    sentence in the copy now before us, some sturdy royalist has added the
    following MS. note:--"Whitelocke reports this of himself, as being well
    pleased with it; and the success of their villany they accounted God's

_Standing when the Lord's Prayer is read._--On Sunday, January 8, the
second lesson for morning service is the sixth chapter of St. Matthew, in
which occurs the Lord's Prayer. When the officiating clergyman began to
read the ninth verse, in which the prayer commences, the congregation at
Bristol Cathedral rose, and remained _standing_ till its conclusion. Is
this custom observed in other places? and (if there is to be a change of
position) why do the congregation _stand_, and not _kneel_, the usual
posture of prayer in the Church of England?


    [The custom, we believe, is observed in the majority of churches. The
    reasons for standing rather than kneeling seems to be, that when the
    Lord's Prayer comes in the course of the lessons it is only read
    historically, as a part of a narrative, which indicates that the whole
    sacred narrative should be treated, as it was anciently, with the like
    reverence. The rubric says nothing about sitting; standing and kneeling
    being the only postures expressly recognised. In the curious engraving
    of the interior of a church, prefixed to Bishop Sparrow's _Rationale
    upon the Book of Common Prayer_, 1661, there is not a seat of any kind
    to be seen, pews not having become at this time a general appendage to
    churches; probably a few chairs or benches were required for the aged
    or infirm.. The only intimation of the sitting posture in our present
    Common Prayer-Book occurs in the rubric, enjoining the people to stand
    when the Gospel is read, which Wheatly tells us was first inserted in
    the Scotch Common Prayer-Book. See "N. & Q.," Vol. ii., pp. 246. 347.]

_Hypocrisy, &c._--Can you inform me with whom originated the following
saying: "Hypocrisy is the homage which vice renders to virtue"?

A. C. W.

    [The saying originated with the Duke de la Rochefoucault, and occurs in
    his _Moral Maxims_, No. 233.]

       *       *       *       *       *



(Vol. viii., p. 54.)

The Note of your correspondent NOVUS upon this _Consilium_ ought to have
been answered before; but as none of your contributors who can speak as
"having authority" have undertaken to do so, I beg to offer to your readers
the following statements and extracts, collected when my surprise at the
assertions of NOVUS was quite fresh. {128}

The first point on which NOVUS requires correction is, the name of the
pontiff to whom the _Consilium_ purports to be addressed. NOVUS says Julius
III., but the date of this document is unquestionably not later than the
beginning of 1538, for Sleidan tells us that editions of it were printed at
Rome, at Cologne, at Strasburg, and at another place, in the course of the
year 1538; and in the title it is distinctly stated to have been presented
to Paul III., who was pope in that year, whilst Julius III. was not elected
till 1550.

When NOVUS says that this _Consilium_ "has just been once more quoted, for
the fiftieth time, perhaps, within the present generation, as a genuine
document, and as proceeding from adherents of the Church of Rome," he falls
short of the fact. For _every writer_ of the least mark, or likelihood,
whose subject has led him that way, has quoted it: thus, _e.g._, Ranke, who
in his great work on _The Popes and the Papacy_, book ii. § 2., refers to
it as indicative of no dishonourable design on the part of the supreme

Amongst the writers of the time when the _Consilium_ is said to have been
drawn up, who regarded it as genuine, we may mention Luther, who, soon
after it found its way into Germany, published a translation, with one of
his biting caricatures prefixed; and Sturm, who prefaced his translation
with a letter to the cardinals to whom it was ascribed, for which reason
alone his edition was put in the "Index," no other edition being similarly
honoured; and this sufficiently refutes a statement of Schelhorn, in his
letter to Cardinal Quirinus, upon which much reliance has been placed by
those whom NOVUS would regard as sharers of his opinion.

The appearance of the editions at Cologne and Strasburg in 1538, testifies
to the speed with which the _Consilium_ reached Germany. Sleidan asserts
that, when it was published there, some fancied it to be fictitious, and
intended to ridicule both the Pope and the Reformation; but others, that it
was a device of the Pope to gain credit for not being hostile to the
correction of certain confessed abuses. In the next year, on July 16th,
Aleander wrote to Cochlæus thus:

    "Multa haberem scribere de Republica, sed mali custodes estis rerum
    arcanarum,--Consiliis Cardinalium promulgatis, cum invectiva Sturmii,
    manibus hominum teritur, antequam vel auctoribus edita, vel executioni
    fuerit demandata."

Which passage might be regarded as decisive of the question of genuineness,
since Aleander was one of the _Cardinales delecti_ whose names are appended
to the _Consilium_.

That Le Plat should insert a copy in his _Monument. ad Hist. Concil.
Trident. potius illustr. spect._, may, perhaps, be considered an
unsatisfactory argument; and the same will certainly be thought of the use
of it by Sarpi. But Pallavicini is a witness not obnoxious to objections
which apply to them, and he says:

    "It happened by Divine Providence, that this _Consilium_ was published,
    since it showed what were in fact the deepest wounds in the discipline
    of the Church, ascertained with great diligence, and exposed with the
    utmost freedom by men of incomparable zeal and knowledge. And these
    were neither falsity of dogmas, nor corruption of the Scriptures, nor
    wickedness of laws, nor politic craft beneath the garb of humility, nor
    impure vices, as the Lutherans asserted; but too great indulgence
    towards violations and abrogations of laws, which Luther far more
    licentiously abrogated," &c.--Vide book IV. ch. v., at the end.

But Ranke's note upon a casual reference to this document in book I. ch.
ii. § 2. of his _History of the Papacy_, completely disposes of the
question of its genuineness, and therefore of its "seriousness" (to use one
of NOVUS' phrases), when taken in conjunction with what has gone before.

    "_Consilium, &c._; printed more than once even at the time, and
    important as pointing out the evil, so far as it lay in the
    administration of discipline, precisely and without reserve. Long after
    it had been printed, _the MS. remained incorporated with the MSS. of
    the Curia_."

Were it not that the assertion of NOVUS is so roundly made, and in a form
that is sure to adhere in the memories of readers sufficiently interested
in the subject to notice his communication, it would have been enough to
quote from one of the works he refers to, as containing copies of the
_Consilium_, to expose _the origin of his error_; and this, now that I have
shown it to be an error, I crave your permission to do. This, then, is what
Brown says in his _Appendix ad Fascicul. Rer. Expetend. et Fugiend._
(commonly cited as _Fascicul. vol. ii._), ed. 1690, pp. 230, 231.:

    "Sæpius excusum est Consilium sequens, cum alibi, tum hic Londini, A.D.
    1609, ex bibliothecâ Wilh. Crashavii, qui in Epistolâ dedicatoriâ ad
    Rev^{mum} D. Tobiam Matthæum Archiep. Eboracen. citat quædam è
    Commentariis Espencæi in Tit. cap. i. ad hoc Consilium ab omni fraudis
    et fictionis suspicione liberandum; _quasi præsensisset Crashavius fore
    aliquando ut pro re, omnino ficta et falsa censeretur_; cum id in
    novissimis Conciliorum editionibus desiderari, et astute suppressum
    esse viderat, ut est in admonitione suâ ad Lectorem. Sed longe aliter
    res habebit; _suo enim de sorex prodidit indicio; et Cochlæus ipse (qui
    nesciit pro nobis mentiri, quantumvis in causâ suâ parum probus
    aliquando), hujusce Consilii fidem ab omni labe improbitatis vindicavit
    et asseruit_ in historiâ suâ de Actis et Scriptis Lutheri, ad annum
    1539, fol. 312. &c. editionis Colonien. 1568. editum est præterea, hoc
    idem Consilium, Parisiis, publicâ authoritate, una cum Guliel. Durandi
    tractatu de modo Generalis Concilii celebrandi; Libello Clamengii de
    corrupto Ecclesiæ statu; Libello Cardinalis de Alliaco, de emendatione
    {129} Ecclesiæ; et Gentiani Herveti oratione de reparandâ Ecclesiasticâ
    disciplinâ (quæ omnia, excepto primo, huic appendici inserentur), A.D.
    1671. In hac nostrâ editione sequimur virum doctissimum et pium
    Hermannum Conringium; adhibitis multis aliis exemplaribus, quæ omniâ
    simul in hoc uno leges. _Vin' autem, Lector, aliquid penitius de hoc
    Corsilio rescire?_ adisis [_sic_] _P. Paulum Vergerium_ (invisum aliis
    sed charum nobis nomen), illiusque annotationes, in Catalogum
    hæreticorum consule, fol. 251. tomi primi illius operum Tubingæ editi,
    A.D. 1563, in 4to., et siquid noveris de reliquorum tomorum editione,
    nos Anglos fac, quæso, certiores. [It would seem that the need of your
    "N. & Q." was felt long before any one thought of supplying it.] Audi
    vero, interea, vel lege, Hermannum Conringium."

And this is what that "learned and godly" man says:

    "Libellus ipse Cardinalis Capuani [Nicholas Schomberg], ut creditur,
    cura ad amicum in Germaniam missus, mox anno 1539, et populari nostrâ
    et suâ est linguâ per Lutherum et Sturmium editus. _Eundem post
    vulgavit_, cum acri ad _Papam Paulum IV. (qui olim fuerat auctorum)_
    præfatione, _Petrus Paulus Vergerius_, postquam Protestantium partibus

I will not add to the length of this Note by any farther quotations; but I
am bound to say that if those I have given do not satisfy NOVUS, he may
expect to be overwhelmed by confirmations of them.


Bungay, Suffolk.

       *       *       *       *       *


(Vol. ix., p. 104.)

A highly respected correspondent, DR. S. R. MAITLAND, has seen an
advertisement in the _Mercurius Reformatus_ of June 11, 1690, announcing
the intention of Bunyan's widow to publish ten manuscripts which her
husband had left prepared for the press, together with some of his printed
treatises which had become scarce. He inquires whether such a publication
took place. In reply I beg leave to state that they were published in a
small folio, containing "ten [and two fragments] of his excellent
manuscripts, and ten of his choice books formerly printed." The volume
bears the title of "The Works of that eminent Servant of Christ Mr. John
Bunyan, late Minister of the Gospel and Pastor of the Congregation at
Bedford. The first volume. London, by Wm. Marshall, 1692." It has the
portrait by Sturt, and an impression from the original curious copper-plate
inscribed, "A Mapp, showing the order and causes of Salvation and
Damnation." In addition to the _Mercurius_, John Dunton and others noticed,
in terms of warm approval, the intended publication, which became
extensively patronised, but has now become very scarce.

To the lovers of Bunyan it is peculiarly interesting, being accompanied by
a tract called "The Struggler," written by one of his affectionate and
intimate friends, the Rev. C. Doe, containing a list of Bunyan's works,
with the time when each of them was published, some personal characteristic
anecdotes, and thirty reasons why all decided Christians should read and
circulate these invaluable treatises. A copy presented to me by my worthy
friend the late Mr. Creasy of Sleaford, which is in remarkably fine
condition, has on the title to the Index a printed dedication to Sir John
Hartop of Newington, the patron and friend of Dr. Watts. This volume was to
have been followed by a second, to complete Bunyan's works, but
difficulties arose as to the copyright of the more popular pieces, which
prevented its publication. The original prospectus is preserved in the
British Museum, which, with "The Struggler" and a new index to the whole of
these truly excellent treatises, is reprinted in my edition of Bunyan's
whole works for the first time collected and published, with his Life, in
three volumes imperial 8vo., illustrated with fac-similes of all the old
woodcuts and many elegant steel plates.



       *       *       *       *       *


(Vol. ix., p. 36.)

It is certainly an uncomfortable idea to suppose that the asteroids are the
fragments of a former world, perhaps accompanied with satellites which have
been scattered either by internal convulsion or external violence. By
looking into the constitution and powers contained within our own earth, we
know that the means are not wanting to rend us asunder under the combined
effects of volcanic action, intense heat, and water, meeting deep within
the substance of the earth under great pressure.

However, there is much to be said against the theory of Olbers,
notwithstanding its plausibility. The distance between the internal
asteroid Flora, and the external one Hygeia, exceeds ninety millions of
miles; or nearly the distance between the earth and the sun. The force
which could shatter a world into fragments, and drive them asunder to such
an extent, must indeed be tremendous.

Mr. Hind has drawn attention to the singular fact, that the asteroids
"appear to separate the planets of small mass from the greater bodies of
the system, the planets which rotate on their axes in about the same time
as our earth from those which are whirled round in less than half that
time, though of ten times the diameter of the earth and," he continues, "it
may yet be found that these small bodies, so far from being portions {130}
of the wreck of a planet, were created in their present state for some wise
purpose, which the progress of astronomy in future ages may eventually

One thing I think is certain, that no disruption of a world belonging to
our system could take place without producing some perceptible effect upon
every other member of the system. The single centre of attraction being
suddenly diffused and spread abroad into many smaller ones, at variable
distances, must produce a sudden sway and alteration of position in all the
other planets, and to a certain extent, derange their respective economies.
From this some striking changes would necessarily arise, such as in the
length of their respective periods of revolution, the amount of light and
heat, and other physical conditions. Certain geological phenomena should be
found to confirm such a change, if these suppositions be true.

As far as the theological part of the question is concerned, it is, I
should think, opposed to Olbers' theory. Human intellect can scarcely
conceive the necessity for the utter breaking up of a globe, even for the
most grievous amount of sin. A more merciful dispensation was granted to
our earth in the deluge; and the Power which removed all but eight lives
from the earth could have equally removed the eight also, without
destroying the integrity of the globe. It is as easy, and far more
reasonable I think, to suppose, that the same Power which gave to Saturn a
satellite nearly equal in size to Mars, should throw a cluster of minute
planetoids into the space which, according to Bodes' empirical law, should
have been devoted to one planet of larger dimensions.

Whilst addressing you on astronomical subjects, I would beg leave to offer
a few remarks upon Saturn, which I have not observed in any work on
astronomy which I have yet consulted. This planet, with its satellites,
appear to exhibit a close resemblance to the solar system, just as if it
were a model of it.

Besides his rings, Saturn is attended by eight satellites, so far as is at
present known. The names of the satellites in their order from the body of
the planet, are 1. Mimas, 2. Euceladus, 3. Tethys, 4. Dione, 5. Rhea, 6.
Titan, 7. Hyperion, 8. Japetus. If we place them in a list in their order,
and overagainst each place the names of the planets in their order from the
sun, certain parallelisms will appear:

  1. Mimas                1. Mercury.
  2. Euceladus            2. Venus.
  3. Tethys               3. Earth.
  4. Dione                4. Mars.
  5. Rhea                 5. Asteroids.
  6. Titan                6. Jupiter.
  7. Hyperion             7. Saturn.
  8. Japetus              8. Uranus.

The relative magnitudes and relative positions of these bodies correspond
in many points, I believe, so far as is at present known. Titan, like
Jupiter, is the largest of his system; being but little less in size than
the primary planet Mars. The next in magnitude is Japetus. Rhea is supposed
to be of considerable size. The four inner ones are smaller than the
others. Sir William Herschell considered that Tethys was larger than
Euceladus, and Euceladus larger than Mimas. Dione and Hyperion have not yet
been well estimated. These dimensions, if correct, correspond in many
points with those of the planets. The first three satellites revolve in
orbits of less diameter than that of our moon. The orbit of Dione, the
fourth satellite, is almost precisely at the same distance from its primary
as the moon is from the earth. As if to carry out the parallelism to the
utmost, the zodiacal light of the sun has often been compared to the ring
of Saturn.

One remark it would appear arises out of these observations, viz. that the
laws of attraction and gravitation seem to require, for the proper
regulation of the whole system, that where a number of bodies of various
sizes revolve round one common centre, the larger body should revolve at a
certain relative distance from that centre. Thus Titan, like a huge
pendulum, seems to sway and maintain the regularity of the minor system,
just as Jupiter may be imagined to do in the great one.

I must not intrude too far on your valuable space, but there remain some
interesting points for discussion in the Saturnian system.



       *       *       *       *       *


(Vol. ix., p. 27.)

The extract from an unpublished MS. given by A REGENT M.A. OF CAMBRIDGE
refers to the year 1620, as will appear from the following passages in
Anthony à Wood's _Hist. and Antiq. of Univ. of Oxford_.

    "1614.--In the latter end of the last and beginning of this year, a
    spirit of sedition (as I may so call it) possessed certain of the
    Regent Masters against the Vicechanc. and Doctors. The chief and only
    matter that excited them to it was their sitting like boys,
    bare-headed, in the Convocation-House, at the usual assemblies there,
    which was not, as 'twas thought, so fit, that the Professors of the
    Faculty of Arts (on which the University was founded) should, all
    things considered, do it. The most forward person among them, named
    Henry Wightwicke, of Gloucester Hall, having had some intimation of a
    statute which enabled them to be covered with their caps, and
    discovering also something in the large west window of St. Mary's
    Church, where pictures of Regents and non-Regents were sitting covered
    in assemblies before the Chancellor, clapt {131} on his cap, and spared
    not to excite his brethren to vindicate that custom, now in a manner
    forgotten; and, having got over one of the Regents to be more zealous
    in the matter than himself, procured the hands of most, if not all, of
    them to be set to a petition (in order to be sent to the Chancellor of
    the University), for the effecting and bringing about the matter. But
    the Vicechancellor, Dr. Singleton, having had timely notice of the
    design, sends a full relation of the matter to the Chancellor;
    whereupon answer was returned, that he should deal therein as he should
    think fit. Wightwicke, therefore, being called into question for
    endeavouring to subvert the honour and government of the University,
    whereby he ran himself into perjury (he having before taken an oath to
    keep and maintain the rites, customs, and privileges of the
    University), was banished, and his party, who had proved false to him,
    severely checkt by the Chancellor.

    "At length Wightwicke's friends, laying open to him the danger that he
    would run himself into, if he should not seek restauration and submit,
    did, after his peevish and rash humour had been much courted to it, put
    up a petition (subscribed in his behalf by the Bishop of London and Sir
    John Bennett) to the Chancellor of the University for his restauration,
    which being with much ado granted, but with this condition, that he
    make an humble recantation in the Convocation, sent to his
    Vicechancellor what should be done in the matter, and among other
    things thus:--'For the manner of his submission and recognition which
    he is to make, I will not take upon me to direct, but leave yt wholy
    unto your wisdomes, as well for manner as for the matter; only thus
    much generally I will intimate unto you, that the affront and offence
    committed by Whittwicke in the Congregation House by his late insolent
    carriage there was very great and notorious, and that offence
    afterwards seconded and redoubled by another as ill or worse than the
    former, in his seditious practizing and procuring a multitude of
    handes, thereby thinking to justifie and maintain his former errors,
    and his proud and insolent disobedience and contempt. I hold yt
    therefore very requisite that his submission and recognition, both of
    the one fault and of the other, should be as publique and as humble as
    possibly with conveniencye may bee. Which being thus openly done, as I
    hope yt will bee a good example to others, to deter them from
    committing the like offence hereafter, so I do also wishe this his
    punishment may be only _ad correctionem et non ad destructionem_."

    "This being the effect of the Chancellor's mind, Wightwicke was
    summoned to appear to make his submission in the next Convocation,
    which being held 25 June this year, he placed himself in the middle of
    St. Mary's chancel, and spoke with an audible voice as followeth:

    "'Ornatissime Domine Procancellarie, vosque Domini Doctores
    pientissimi, quotquot me vel banniendum vel bannitionem meam ratam esse
    voluistis ut vobis omnibus et singulis innotescat discupio: me Henricum
    Whitwicke pileum coram Domino Vicecancellario Thoma Singleton capiti
    haud ita pridem imposuisse, quod nemini Magistrorum in Congregatione
    vel Convocatione [in presentia Domini Vicecancellarii aut Doctoris
    alicujus] licere fateor. Scitote quæso prætereà, me supradictum
    Henricum à sententia Domini Vicecancellarii ad venerabilem Domum
    Congregationis provocasse, quod nec licitum nec honestum esse in causa
    perturbationis pacis facilè concedo. Scitote denique me solum, manus
    Academicorum egregiè merentium Theologia Baccalaureorum et in Artibus
    Magistrorum in hac corona astantium Collegiatim et Aulatim cursitando
    rescripto apponendas curasse, in quibus omnibus Præfectis [summe]
    displicuisse, in pacem almæ hujus Academiæ et in dignissimum nostrum
    Procancellarium deliquisse, parum nolenti animo confiteor, et
    sanctitates vestras humillimè imploro, ut quæ vel temerè et inconsultò,
    vel volenter et scienter feci, ea, ut deceat homines, condonentur.


    Which submission or recognition being ended, he was restored to his
    former state, and so forthwith reassumed his place. But this person,
    who as lately beneficed at Kingerbury in Lincolnshire, could never be
    convinced, when he became Master of Pembroke College, forty-six years
    after this time, that he made any submission at all, but carried the
    business on and effected it against all the University; as to his young
    acquaintance that came often to visit him and he them (for he delighted
    in boyish company), he would, after a pedantical way, boast, supposing
    perhaps that, having been so many years before acted, no person could
    remember it; but record will rise up and justify matters when names and
    families are quite extirpated and forgotten among men. Pray see more of
    this cap-business in the year 1620."

    "1620.--In the beginning of Michaelmas Term following, the
    cap-business, mentioned an. 1614, was renewed again: for some
    disrelishment of the former transactions remaining behind, the Regent
    Masters met together several times for the effecting their designs. At
    length, after much ado, they drew up a petition subscribed by
    fifty-three of the senior Masters for this year, and presented it to
    one whom they knew would not be violent against them, as Dr. Singleton
    was before. The beginning of it runs thus:

        "'Reverendissimo Viro Domino Doctori Prideaux ornatissimo hujus
        Academiæ Vicecan. digniss, &c.

        "'Multa jamjudum sunt (reverendissime Vicecancellarie) quæ ab
        antiquis hujus Academiæ institutis salubriter profecta, mala tandem
        consuetudo, et in pejus potens aut abrogavit penitus aut pessime
        corrupit, &c.'

    "Among those that subscribed to it were these following, that
    afterwards became persons of note, viz, Gilbert Sheldon, Alexand. Gill,
    jun., and Anthony Farndon, of Trinity Coll.; Pet. Heylin of Magd. Coll.
    [Robert Newlin of C. C. C., &c.]. The chief solicitor of the business
    was Rous Clopton of Corpus Ch. Coll., a restless, busy person, and one
    afterwards as much noted for his infamy as any of the former for their
    learning or place. This petition, I say, being presented to Dr.
    Prideaux the Vicechancellor, and he considering well their several
    reasons for their sitting covered (one of which was that they were
    Judges in Congregations and Convocations), sent it to the Chancellor to
    have his consent, who also, after he had considered of it, wrote a
    letter to the Vicechancellor, to {132} be communicated to the
    Convocation: the chief contents of which are these:

        "'After my very harty commendations, I doe take this manner of
        proceeding by the Regent Masters (for their sitting covered at
        Congregations and Convocations) in soe good part, that although I
        might well take some time to advise before I give answer,
        especially when I consider how long that custom hath continued, how
        much it hath been questioned, and that upon a long debate it hath
        been withstood by so grave and wise a Counsellor of State as your
        late Chancellor, my immediate predecessor; yet, when I weigh their
        undoubted right, their discreet and orderly proceedings to seek it,
        not to take it, the chief, if not the only, cause why it was
        formerly denied; the good congruity this doth beare, not with
        Cambridge alone (though that were motive enough), but all other
        places, it being no where seen that those that are admitted Judges
        are required to sit bare-headed; I cannot choose but commend and
        thus farre yield to theire request as to referre it to the
        Convocation House. I hope no man can have cause to think that I
        have not the power to continew this custom as well as some others
        of my predecessors, if I had a mind to strive; nor that I seek
        after their applause in yielding them that now, which hath been so
        long kept from them, but the respect I have to their due, to the
        decency of the place, and honour of the University, which I cannot
        conceive to bee anyway diminished, but rather increased, by their
        sitting covered, are the only reasons that have moved me, and
        carried me to so quick a resolution, wherewith you may acquaint the
        Convocation House with this also, that what they shall conclude I
        shall willingly agree to. And soe I doe very hartely take leave,
        and rest

                      Your assured loving friend,
          Baynard's Castle,
            this 4 of December, 1620.'

    Which letter being publickly read in a Convocation held 20 Dec., it was
    then agreed upon by the consent of all there present, that all Masters
    of what condition soever might put on their caps in Congregations and
    Convocations, yet with these conditions: That in the said assemblies
    the said Masters should use only square caps, and not sit bare, or
    without cap. And if any were found faulty in these matters, or that
    they should bring their hats in the said Assemblies, they should not
    only lose their suffrages for that time, but be punished as the
    Vicechancellor should think fit. Lastly, it was decreed, under the said
    conditions and no otherwise, that in the next Congregation in the
    beginning of Hilary Term, and so for ever after, all Masters, of what
    condition soever, whether Regents or not Regents, should, in
    Congregations and Convocations, put on and use square caps.

    "All that shall be said more of this matter is, that the loss of using
    caps arose from the negligence of the Masters, who, to avoid the pains
    of bringing their caps with them, would sit bare-headed; which being
    used by some, was at length followed by all, and so at length became a

It would seem, from Lord Pembroke's letter, that the right of the senate of
this university to wear their caps had not been questioned.



       *       *       *       *       *


(Vol. ix., p. 103.)

Statements and complaints have often been made respecting the imperfect
knowledge possessed by English navigators of the shores and coasts of the
Black Sea, and of the great danger thence arising to ships and fleets from
England, which would thus seem to be without the charts necessary for their
guidance. _The Guardian_ newspaper reiterates these complaints in its
number for Jan. 11. This deficiency of charts, however, ought not to exist,
and probably does not; since, no doubt, the English and French Governments
would take care to supply them at the present time. As respects England,
Dr. E. D. Clarke, in his well-known _Travels in Russia, &c._ (see vol. i.
4th edit., 8vo., London, 1816, Preface, p. x.), states that he brought--

    "Certain documents with him from Odessa, at the hazard of his life, and
    deposited within a British Admiralty."

These documents, we are led naturally to infer, were charts; for he adds:

    "They may serve to facilitate the navigation of the Russian coasts of
    the Black Sea, if ever the welfare of Great Britain should demand the
    presence of her fleets in that part of the world."

Happening to meet with this passage, in consulting Dr. Clarke's _Travels_,
at the beginning of December, when the Fleets of Great Britain and France
were on the point of entering the Black Sea, and having read in many
quarters fears expressed for the fleets from the want of charts, I ventured
to copy out the passage relating to these remarkable documents, and sent it
to Lord Aberdeen; in case, from the alleged poverty of charts in the
Admiralty Catalogues (see _The Guardian_, Jan. 11.), Dr. Clarke's
"documents" should have fallen out of sight, and were forgotten. No notice,
however, was taken of my communication; from which I concluded that it was
wholly valueless.



       *       *       *       *       *


(Vol. viii., pp. 478. 601.)

If "N. & Q." were the publication in which questions were cursorily
settled, the answer of JAMES SPENCE HARRY (p. 478.) might suffice with
regard to the Query of S. C. P. (p. 413.); but your correspondent E. C. H.,
who seems also {133} to know something about the matter, wishes for German

Should your correspondents JAMES S. HARRY and E. C. H. be acquainted (and I
doubt not but they are) with the song, in which a German inquires "What is
his native land?" and having called over some of the principalities, as
Prussia, Suabia, Bavaria, Pomerania, Westphalia, Switzerland, Tyrol, he
cries disdainfully, "No! no! no! my fatherland must be greater:" at last,
despairing, he asks to name him that land, and is answered, "Wherever the
German tongue is heard:"--should JAMES S. HARRY and E. C. H. recollect
these words, they will conceive that such a people must have several
tribes, and each tribe their peculiar dialect, founded on prescribed rules,
and to which individually equal justice is due.

The dialects of the Deutsche Sprache, the German language, are the Ober
Deutsche and Nieder Deutsche, Upper German and Low German: from the former
dialect has, in course of time, proceeded the Hoch Deutsche Sprache, the
High German language, now used exclusively as the book language by the more
educated classes throughout Germany.

The principal dialects of the Ober Deutsche are the following:

1. The Allemanic, spoken in Switzerland and the Upper Rhine.

2. The Suabian, spoken in the countries between the Black Forest and the
River Lech.

3. The Bavarian, spoken in the South of Bavaria and Austria.

4. The Franconian, spoken in the North of Bavaria, Hessen, and the Middle

5. The Upper Saxon or Misnian, spoken in the plains of Saxony and

These dialects differ from each other, and particularly from the High
German language, with regard to their elements.

The Ober Deutsche dialects differ from each other by the introduction of
peculiar vowels.

The Nieder Deutsche is distinguished from the Ober Deutsche by the shifting
of consonants: _ex. gr._:

  |High   |Allem. |Suab. |Bavar. |Franc.|Upper  | Lower  |Holl.   | Engl. |
  |German.|       |      |       |      |Saxony.| Saxony.|        |       |
  |wein.  |wi.    |wai.  |wai.   |wein. |wein.  |win.    |wein.   |wine.  |
  |stein. |stein. |stoi. |stoa.  |staan.|steen. |steen.  |steen.  |stone. |
  |weit.  |wit.   |wait. |wait.  |weit. |weit.  |wet.    |weid.   |wide.  |
  |breit. |breit. |broit.|broat. |braat.|breet. |breet.  |breed.  |broad. |
  |haus.  |hus.   |haus. |haus.  |haus. |haus.  |hus.    |huis.   |house. |
  |kaufen.|kaufen.|koufen|kafen. |kafen.|koofen.|koopen. |koopen. |to buy.|
  |feuer. |für.   |fuir. |foir.  |fair. |foier. |für.    |für.    |fire.  |
  |kirche.|chilche|kieche|kirche.|kerche|kerche.|kerke.  |kerk.   |church.|
  |herz.  |herz.  |heaz. |herz.  |harz. |harz.  |hart.   |hart.   |heart. |
  |gross. |grosz. |grausz|grusz. |grausz|grusz. |groot.  |groot.  |great. |
  |buch.  |buech. |busch.|buech. |bouch.|buch.  |book.   |boek.   |book.  |

I have introduced here, as a dialect of the Nieder Deutsche, the Dutch =
Holländisch, the language spoken by the people of the Nederlanden =
Niederlande = Netherlands.

The Nieder Deutsche dialect is also spoken in Westphalia, and along the
river Weser, &c.

All these dialects have also their own words, or at least their peculiar
meanings of words, as well as particular modes of expression, and these are
to be considered as provincialisms.



       *       *       *       *       *


DR. MANSELL having forwarded to me for publication the accompanying account
of his mode of operation, I have much pleasure in laying it before the
readers of "N. & Q.;" because my friend DR. MANSELL is not only so
fortunate in his results, but is one of the most careful and correct
manipulators in our art. The proportions which he recommends, and his mode
of operating, are, it will be seen, somewhat different from those hitherto
published. In writing to me he says: "I make a point of making a short note
in the evening of the day's experiments, a plan involving very little
trouble, but of great service as a reference." If all photographers would
adopt this simple plan, how much good would result! DR. M. complains to me
of the constant variation he has found in collodion; (with your permission,
I will in your pages furnish him, and all your readers with some plain
directions on this point); and he has given me some excellent observations
on the "fashionable" waxed-paper process, in which he has not met with such
good results as he had anticipated; although with much experience which
_may_ some day turn to good account. DR. MANSELL concludes with an
observation in which I entirely concur, viz. "That the calotype process is
by far the most useful; and I find the pictures it gives have better effect
than the wax ones, which always to me appear flat, even when they are not


_The Calotype on the Sea-shore._--The great quantity of blue light
reflected from the sea renders calotyping in its vicinity much more
difficult than in the country; the more distant the object, the greater
depth has the blue veil which floats over it, and as a consequence of this
disproportion, if time enough is given in the camera to bring out the
foreground, the sky becomes red, and the distance obscured. After constant
failures with papers iodized in the usual manner, I made a number of
experiments to obtain a paper that would stand the camera long enough to
satisfy the required conditions, and the result was the following method,
which gives an intensity of blacks and half-tones, with a solidity and
uniform depth over large portions of sky, greater than I have seen produced
by any other process. Since I adopted it, in the autumn of 1852, I have
scarcely had a failure, and this success induces me to recommend it to
those who, like myself, work in highly actinising localities.

The object of the following plan is to impregnate the paper evenly with a
strong body of iodide of silver. I prefer iodizing by the single process,
and for this purpose use a strong solution of iodide of silver, as the
paper when finished ought to have, as nearly as possible, the colour of
pure iodide of silver.

Take 100 grains of nitrate of silver, and 100 grains of iodide of
potassium[4], dissolve each in two ounces of distilled water, pour the
iodide solution into the nitrate of silver, wash the precipitate in three
distilled waters, pour off the fluid, and dissolve it in a solution of
iodide of potassium, about 680 grains are required, making the whole up to
four ounces.

Having cut the paper somewhat larger than the picture, turn up the edges so
as to form a dish, and placing it on a board, pour into it the iodide
solution abundantly, guiding it equally over the surface with a camel-hair
pencil; continue to wave it to and fro for five minutes, then pour off the
surplus, which serves over and over again, and after dripping the paper,
lay it to dry on a round surface, so that it dries equally fast all over;
when almost dry it is well to give it a sight of the fire, to finish off
those parts which remain wet longest, but not more than _just to surface
dry it_.

Immerse it in common rain-water, often changing it, and in about twenty
minutes all the iodide of potash is removed. To ascertain this, take up
some of the last water in a glass, and add to it a few drops of a strong
solution of bichloride of mercury in alcohol, the least trace of hydriodate
of potash is detected by a precipitate of iodide of mercury. A solution of
nitrate of silver is no test whatever unless distilled water is used, as
ordinary water almost invariably contains muriates. The sooner the washing
is over the better. Pin up the paper to drip, and finish drying before a
slow fire, turning it. If hung up to dry by a corner, the parts longest wet
are always weaker than those that dry first. When dry pass a nearly cold
iron over the back, to smooth it; if well made it has a fine primrose
colour, and is perfectly even by transmitted light.

To excite the paper, take distilled water two drachms, drop into it four
drops (not minims) of saturated solution of gallic acid, and eight drops
(not minims) of the aceto-nitrate solution; mix. Always dilute the gallic
acid by dropping it into the water before the aceto-nitrate; gallate of
silver is less readily formed, and the paper keeps longer in hot weather.
If the temperature is under sixty degrees, use five drops of gallic acid,
and ten of aceto-nitrate; if above seventy degrees, use only three drops of
gallic acid, and seven of aceto-nitrate. The aceto-nitrate solution
consists of nitrate of silver fifty grains, glacial acetic acid two
drachms, distilled water one ounce.

Having pinned the paper by two adjacent corners to a deal board, the eighth
of an inch smaller on each side than it is, to prevent the solutions
getting to the back, lay on the gallo-nitrate abundantly with a soft cotton
brush (made by wedging a portion of fine cotton into a cork); and keep the
solution from pooling, by using the brush with a very light hand. In about
two minutes the paper has imbibed it evenly, and lies dead; blot it up, and
allow it to dry in a box, or place it at once in the paper-holder. For fear
of stains on the {135} back, it is better to place on the board a clean
sheet of ordinary paper for every picture. It is very important to have the
glass, in which the gallo-nitrate is made, _chemically_ clean; every time
it is used, it should be washed with strong nitric acid, and then with
distilled water.

To develop:--Pin the paper on the board as before; rapidly brush over it a
solution of gallo-nitrate, as used to excite. As soon as the picture
appears, in about a minute, pour on a saturated solution of gallic acid
abundantly, and keep it from pooling with the brush, using it with a very
light hand. In about ten minutes the picture is fully developed. If very
slow in coming out, a few drops of pure aceto-nitrate brushed over the
surface will rapidly bring out the picture; but this is seldom required,
and it will sometimes brown the whites. It is better, as soon as the gallic
acid has been applied, to put the picture away from the light of the candle
in a box or drawer, there to develop quietly, watching its progress every
three or four minutes; the surface is to be refreshed by a few light
touches of the brush, adding more gallic acid if necessary. Many good
negatives are spoiled by over-fidgetting in this part of the process. When
the picture is fully out, wash, &c. as usual; the iodide of silver is
rapidly removed by a saturated solution of hyposulphite of soda, which acts
much less on the weaker blacks than it does if diluted.

If the picture will not develop, from too short exposure in the camera, a
solution of pyrogallic acid, as DR. DIAMOND recommends, after the gallic
acid has done its utmost, greatly increases the strength of the blacks: it
slightly reddens the whites, but not in the same ratio that it deepens the

After the first wash with gallo-nitrate, it is essential to develop these
strongly iodized papers with gallic acid only: the half-and-half mixture of
aceto-nitrate and gallic acid, which works well with weaker papers, turns
these red.

The paper I use is Whatman's 1849. Turner's paper, Chafford Mills, if two
or three years old, answers equally well.


Guernsey, Jan. 30, 1854.

[Footnote 4: [Having lately prepared this solution according to the formula
given by _Dr. Diamond_ (Vol. viii., p. 597.), in which it required 650
grains to dissolve the 60-grain precipitate, we were inclined to think our
correspondent had formed a wrong calculation, as the difference appeared so
little for a solution more than one-third stronger. We found upon
_accurately_ following DR. MANSELL'S instructions, that it required 734
grains of iodide of potassium to effect a solution, whilst we have at the
same time dissolved the quantity recommended by DR. DIAMOND with 598
grains. This little experiment is a useful lesson to our correspondents,
exhibiting as it does the constantly varying strength of supposed pure
chemicals.--ED. "N. & Q."]]

       *       *       *       *       *

Replies to Minor Queries.

_Ned o' the Todding_ (Vol. ix., p. 36.).--In answer to the inquiry of W.
T., I beg to say that he will find the thrilling narrative of poor Ned of
the Toddin in Southey's _Espriella's Letters from England_, vol. ii. p.
42.; but I am not aware of any lines with the above heading, by which I
presume W. T. to be in search of some poetical rendering of the tale.

F. C. H.

_Hour-glasses and Inscriptions on old Pulpits_ (Vol. ix., pp. 31. 64.).--In
St. Edmund's Church, South Burlingham, stands an elegant pulpit of the
fifteenth century, painted red and blue, and relieved with gilding. On it
there still remains an old hour-glass, though such appendages were not
introduced till some centuries probably after the erection of this pulpit.
The following legend goes round the upper part of this pulpit, in the old
English character:

    "Inter natos mulierum non surrexit major Johanne Baptista."

F. C. H.

_Table-turning_ (Vol. ix., pp. 39. 88.).--I have not Ammianus Marcellinus
within reach, but, if I am not mistaken, after the table had been got into
motion, the oracle was actually given by means of a ring. This being held
over, suspended by a thread, oscillated or leaped from one to another of
the letters of the alphabet which were engraved on the edge of the table,
or that which covered it. The passage would not occupy many lines, and I
think that many readers of "N. & Q." would be interested if some one of its
learned correspondents would furnish a copy of it, with a close English

N. B.

"_Firm was their faith_" (Vol. ix., p. 17.).--Grateful as I am to all who
think well enough of my verses to discuss them in "N. & Q.," yet I cannot
permit them to be incorrectly quoted or wrongly revised. If, as F. R. R.
alleges, I had written in the third line of the stanza quoted--"with _firm_
and trusting hands"--then I should have repeated the same epithet (_firm_)
twice in three lines. Whereas I wrote, as a reference to _Echoes from Old
Cornwall_, p. 58., will establish, _stern_.


_The Wilbraham Cheshire MS._ (Vol. viii., pp. 270. 303.).--With regard to
this highly curious MS., I am enabled to state that it is still preserved
at Delamere House, the seat of George Fortescue Wilbraham, Esq., by whom it
has been continued down to the present time. Mr. Wilbraham has answered
this Query himself, but from some accident his reply did not appear in the
pages of "N. & Q." I therefore, having recently seen the MS., take this
opportunity of assuring your querist of its existence.



_Mousehunt_ (Vol. viii., pp. 516. 606.; Vol. ix., p. 65.).--This animal is
well known by this name in Norfolk, where the marten is very rare, if not
entirely unknown. The Norfolk mousehunt, or mousehunter, is the _Mustela
vulgaris_. (Vide Forby's _Vocab. of East Anglia_, vol. ii. p. 222., who
errs, however, in calling it the stoat, but says that it is the "smallest
animal of the weasel tribe, and pursues the smallest prey.") It would be of
much use, both to naturalists and others, if our zoological works would
give the popular provincial names of animals and birds; collectors might
then more easily procure specimens from labourers, &c. I have formed a list
of Norfolk names for birds, {136} which shall appear in "N. & Q." if
desired. The Norfolk _Mustelidæ_ in order of size are the "_poll_cat," or
weasel; the stoat, or cane; the mousehunt, mousehunter, or lobster. A
popular notion of gamekeepers is, that pollcats add a new lobe to their
livers every year of their lives; but the disgusting smell of the animal
prevents examining this point by dissection.

E. G. R.

If Fennell's _Natural History of Quadrupeds_ be correctly quoted, as it is
stated to be "a very excellent and learned work," Mr. Fennell must have
been a better naturalist than geographer, for he says of the beech marten:

    "In Selkirkshire it has been observed to descend to the shore at night
    time to feed upon mollusks, particularly upon the large basket mussel
    (_Mytilus modiolus_)."

Selkirkshire, as you well know, is an inland county, nowhere approaching
the sea by many miles: I would fain hope, for Mr. Fennell's sake, that
Selkirkshire is either a misprint or a misquotation.

J. SS.

_Begging the Question_ (Vol. viii., p. 640.).--This is a common logical
fallacy, _petitio principii_; and the first known use of the phrase is to
be found in Aristotle, [Greek: to en archê aiteisthai] (Topics, b. VIII.
ch. xiii., Bohn's edition), where the five ways of "begging the question,"
as also the contraries thereof, are set forth. In the _Prior Analytics_ (b.
II. ch. xvi.) he gives one instance from mathematicians--

    "who fancy that they describe parallel lines, for they deceive
    themselves by assuming such things as they cannot demonstrate unless
    they are parallel. Hence it occurs to those who thus syllogise to say
    that each thing is, if it is; and thus everything will be known through
    itself, which is impossible."



_Termination "-by"_ (Vol. viii., p. 105.).--On going over an alphabetical
list of places from A to G, I obtained these results:

  Lincoln          65
  Leicester        21
  York             24
  Northampton       9
  Cumberland        7
  Norfolk           6
  Westmoreland      3
  Lancashire        2
  Derby             2
  Nottingham        2
  Sussex            1
  Total           142

Results of a similar character were obtained in reference to _-thorp_,
_-trop_, _-thrup_, or _-drop_; Lincoln again heading the list, but closely
followed by Norfolk, then Leicester, Notts, &c.

B. H. C.

_German Tree_ (Vol. viii., p. 619.; Vol. ix., p. 65.).--ERYX has mistaken
my Query owing to its vagueness. When I said, "Is this the first notice of
a German tree in England?" I meant, "Is this the first notice of a
German-tree-in-England?" and not "Is this the first notice-in-England of a
German-tree?" as _Eryx_ understood it.


_Celtic Etymology_ (Vol. ix., p. 40.).--If the _h_ must be "exhasperated"
(as Matthews used to say) in words adopted into the English language, how
does it happen that we never hear it in _hour_, _honour_, _heir_, _honest_,
and _humour_? Will E. C. H. be so kind as to inform me on this point? With
regard to the word _humble_, in support of the _h_ being silent, I have
seen it stated in a dictionary, but by whom I cannot call to mind, in a
list of words nearly spelled alike, and whose sound is the same:

 "HUMBLE, low, submissive."
 "UMBLES, the entrails of a deer."

Hence the point of the sarcasm "He will be made to eat _humble_ pie;" and
it serves in this instance to show that the _h_ is silent when the word is
properly pronounced.

The two words _isiol_ and _irisiol_, properly _uirisiol_, which E. C. H.
has stated to be the original Celtic words signifying _humble_, have quite
a different meaning: for _isiol_ is quietly, silently, without noise; and
_uirisiol_ means, sneaking, cringing, crawling, terms which could not be
applied without injustice to a really humble honest person. The
Iberno-Phoenician _umal_ bears in itself evidence that it is not borrowed
from any other language, for the two syllables are intelligible apart from
each other; and the word can be at once reduced to its root _um_, to which
the Sanscrit word _kshama_, as given by E. C. H., bears no resemblance


_Recent Curiosities of Literature_ (Vol. ix., p. 31.).--Your correspondent
MR. CUTHBERT BEDE has done well in directing Mr. Thackeray's attention to
the error of substituting "candle" for "candlestick," at p. 47. of _The
Newcomes_; but it appears that the author discovered the error, and made a
clumsy effort to rectify it; for he elsewhere gives us to understand, that
she died of a wound in her temple, occasioned by coming into contact with
the stone stairs. See H. Newcome's letter.

The following curiosity of literature lately appeared in the London papers,
in a biographical notice of the late Viscount Beresford, which is inserted
in the _Naval and Military Gazette_ of January 14, 1854:

    "Of honorary badges he had, first, A cross dependent from seven clasps:
    this indicated his having been present in eleven battles during the
    Peninsular War. His name was unaccountably omitted in the {137} return
    of those present at Ciudad Rodrigo. When Her Majesty gracefully
    extended the honorary distinctions to all the survivors of the great
    war, Lord Beresford received the _Peninsular_ medal, with two clasps,
    for _Egypt_ and Ciudad Rodrigo."

The expression should have been "the silver medal," not "Peninsular;" as,
among the names of battles engraved on the clasps attached to the silver
war-medals, granted in 1849, will be found the words "Martinique," "Fort
Détroit," "Chateauguay," "Chrystler's Farm," and "Egypt."


_D. O. M._ (Vol. iii, p. 173.).--I am surprised that there should be the
least doubt that the above are the initials of "_Datur omnibus mori_."

R. W. D.

_Dr. John Taylor_ (Vol. viii., p. 299.).--There are several errors in the
communication of S. R. He states that "Dr. John Taylor was buried at
Kirkstead, Lancashire, where his tomb is distinguished by the following
simple inscription."

1. Kirkstead is in Lincolnshire.

2. Dr. John Taylor lies interred in the burial-ground attached to the
Presbyterian Chapel at Chowbent, near Bolton, in Lancashire.

3. The inscription on the tombstone is as follows:

    "Here is interred the Rev. John Taylor, D.D., of Warrington, formerly
    of Norwich, who died March 5, 1761, aged 66."

4. The inscription given by S. R. is on a slab in the chapel at Chowbent. I
may add that this inscription was drawn up by Dr. Enfield.



_Lines attributed to Hudibras_ (Vol. i., p. 211.).--

 "For he that fights and runs away,
  May live to fight another day."

In so far as I can understand from the various articles in "N. & Q."
regarding the above quotation, it _is_ to be found in the _Musarum
Deliciæ_, 12mo., 1656. There is a copy of this volume now lying before me,
the title-page of which runs thus:

    "Musarum Deliciæ, or the Muses' Recreation; containing severall pieces
    of Poetique Wit. The second edition, by S^r J. M. and Ja. S. London:
    Printed by J. G. for Henry Herringman, and are to be sold at his Shop,
    at the Signe of the Anchor in the New Exchange, 1656."

This copy seems to have at one time belonged to Longmans, as it is
described in the _Bib. An. Poetica_, having the signatures of "Orator
Henly," "Ritson," and "J. Park." I have read this volume over carefully
twice, and I must confess my inability to find any such two lines as the
above noted, there. As I do not think Mr. Cunningham, in his _Handbook of
London_, or DR. RIMBAULT, would mislead any one, I am afraid my copy, being
a second edition, may be incomplete; and as I certainly did not get the
volume for _nothing_, will either of these gentlemen, or any other of the
readers of "N. & Q.," who have seen other editions, let me know this?

There is a question asked by MELANION regarding the _entire_ quotation,
which I have not yet seen answered, which is,--

 "For he that fights and runs away,
  May live to fight another day;
  But he that is in battle slain,
  Can never hope to fight again."

Are these last two lines in the _Musarum Deliciæ_? or are these four lines
to be found anywhere in conjunction? If this could be found, it would in my
opinion settle the question.


_"Corporations have no Souls," &c._ (Vol. viii., p. 587.).--In Poynder's
_Literary Extracts_, under the title "Corporations," there occurs the
following passage:

    "Lord Chancellor Thurlow said that corporations have neither bodies to
    be punished, nor souls to be condemned; they therefore do as they

There are also two long extracts, one from Cowper's _Task_, book IV., and
the other from the _Life of Wilberforce_, vol. ii., Appendix, bearing on
the same subject.


_Lord Mayor of London a Privy Councillor_ (Vol. iv. _passim_).--Mr.
Serjeant Merewether, Town Clerk to the Corporation of London, in his
examination before the City Corporation Commission, said that it had been
the practice from time immemorial, to summon the Lord Mayor of London to
the _first_ Privy Council held after the demise of the crown. (The
_Standard_, Jan. 13, 1854, p. i. col. 5.)


_Booty's Case_ (Vol. iii., p. 170.).--A story resembling that of "Old
Booty" is to be found in St. Gregory the Great's _Dialogues_, iii. 30.,
where it is related that a hermit saw Theodoric thrown into the crater of
Lipari by two of his victims, Pope John and Symmachus.

J. C. R.

_"Sat cito, si sat bene"_ (Vol. vii. p. 594.).--St. Jerome (Ep. lxvi. § 9.,
ed. Vallars) quotes this as a maxim of Cato's.

J. C. R.

_Celtic and Latin Languages_ (Vol. ix., p. 14.).--Allow me to suggest to T.
H. T. that the word _Gallus_, a Gaul, is not, _of course_, the same as the
Irish _Gal_, a stranger. Is it not rather the Latin form of _Gaoithil_
(pronounced _Gael_ or _Gaul_), the generic appellation of our Erse
population? In Welsh it is _Gwydyl_, to this day their term for an
Irishman. {138}

_Gaoll_, stranger, is used in Erse to denote a foreign settler, _e.g._ the
Earl of Caithness is Morphear (pronounced _Morar_) _Gaoll_, the stranger
great man; being lord of a corner of the land inhabited by a foreign race.

Galloway, on the other hand, takes its name from the _Gael_, being
possessed by a colony of that people from Kintyre, &c., who long retained
the name of the wild _Scots_[5] of Galloway, to distinguish them from the
Brets or British inhabitants of the rest of the border.


Holy Trinity, Tewkesbury.

[Footnote 5: Scot or Scott is applied only to the men of Gaelic extraction
in our old records.]

_Brydone the Tourist's Birth-place_ (Vol. vii., p. 108.).--According to
Chambers's _Lives of Scotsmen_, vol. i. p. 384., 1832, Brydone was the son
of a clergyman in the neighbourhood of Dumbarton, where he was born in the
year 1741. When he came to England, he was engaged as travelling preceptor
by Mr. Beckford, to whom his _Tour through Sicily and Malta_ is addressed.
In a copy of this work, now before me, I find the following remarks written
in pencil:

    "These travels are written in a very plausible style, but little
    dependence is to be placed upon their veracity. Brydone never was on
    the summit of Ætna, although he describes the prospect from it in such
    glowing colours."

It is right to add, that the writer of these remarks was long a resident in
Italy, and in constant habits of intercourse with the most distinguished
scholars of that country.



       *       *       *       *       *



The second volume of _Murray's British Classics_, which is also the second
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Goldsmith's _Enquiry into the State of Polite Literature in Europe_, and
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_Memorials of the Canynges Family and their Times; Westbury College,
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